Theory and Analysis:Kaworu's lines in Episode 24
After the 2019 Netflix re-release of Eva, the re-translation of Kaworu Nagisa's lines in Episode 24 were questioned by portions of the fan base, who believe it is mischaracterizing the original intent of the authors or altering something from the original show (which received no alterations in its Japanese Eva release). This is mostly based out of the ADV Platinum DVD localisation, but it misses some facts regarding both the previously existing translations and the current one, including false claims about older translations, and well as Evangelion as it was originally written. In fact, there is abundant evidence suggesting that not only the new Khara (and not Netflix) translation is by far the most accurate one ever made, under stricter supervision by the original creators of the show.
Background for the translation
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The circumstances regarding the new localization aren't entirely known, and some believe the changes are executive decisions made by Netflix themselves. It seems strange that Netflix, a company very publicly committed to LGBT representation, would somehow want to censor anything in Eva, which it hasn't even marketed heavily in the first place. However, it is publicly known that the dub is made by a company called VSI Group[1], and the translation work is credited to Dan Kanemitsu. Dan is not just some random translator chosen by Netflix, in fact, he is Khara's in-house translator and has worked directly with them since at least 2007, and has been involved with Gainax, Khara and Evangelion for a long time, since at least 1989[2]. He is directly responsible for official translations of Eva done in the past, and has worked directly with Khara since at least Evangelion 1.0. He is directly credited with the subtitle track for Evangelion 3.0, for instance.
After the original 3.0 dub, which was available on initial theatrical showings, and full of inaccuracies[3][4], Funimation had to re-dub Evangelion 3.0 for its DVD/Bluray release under supposedly much closer Khara supervision, which was only released in 2016, four years after the movie's original release. It is likely Khara has also closely supervised the new translation, in order to avoid mistranslations and misinterpretations. While we can't know for certain how much involvement the show's writers, or Anno, have had with this translation, Dan has been involved with Evangelion for a long time and has been a fan since the original release more than 20 years ago(see the image). Dan has a degree in East Asian studies form the University of Minnesota. Their academic press specializes in translating anime criticism originating from Japan, for example, translations of books by Azuma Hiroki and Tamaki Saito and a academic journal called "Mechademia", specialized in anime and manga research. He also has extensive experience translating other anime and manga for 30 years.
Dan is quite possibly, the most qualified person on the planet to make this translation while conveying the desires of notoriously perfectionist Studio Khara.[5][6] He probably has direct input and direction from Khara themselves. Although Dan has refused to comment on any specific change, he has defended his commitment to accuracy and the ambiguity and open-endedness present in Eva in general, something also repeatedly defended by Anno. Dan states that he commonly consults the original creator of a work when the meaning is unclear or needs to be specified.[2]
In a tweet, Carrie Keranen, the director for the English re-dub and new voice of Misato[7], stated that "Japan made the casting decisions" through blind auditions. This tweet appears to have been deleted, but you can find a screenshot here, the Web Archive here, and the Twitter conversation leading to it here.[8] Virtually all of the many old mistakes and inconsistencies present in the ADV translation which have bugged Evangelion fans for years seem to have been fixed.[9]
Because Khara's (and any Japanese company's) control of a localization is essentially as tight or as loose as they want to,[10] it might also be worth noticing that, unlike the English dub, non-English localisations have largely kept their old cast and even retained many of the old mistakes for the Netflix re-release, as non-English localisations of Eva (and many anime) are often translated from the English version, not the original Japanese one[11] and tend to be entirely outsourced, as it seems many of them simply used the older ADV script with some slight corrections instead of a brand-new, Khara-supplied script. Much like it also happened with the Rebuild movies, in which only Shinji, Asuka and Misato retained the same voice actors from the first ADV release by the time of Eva 1.0 and 2.0, Khara generally only shows real interest in English localisations as far as international releases of Eva go. All of this seems to further indicate Khara has indeed kept much a much closer watch on the new localisation than they ever did with any ADV release of Evangelion.[12] The older ADV and Manga releases of Evangelion also took some creative liberties[13] and even contained many notorious translation errors, particularly in End of Evangelion[14], which are absent from this new release, which in turn exemplifies how Gainax's handling of them was likely much more lax.
As such, it is not at all accurate to say this is Netflix's localisation. Rather, this is Khara's localisation, and whatever changes the new localisation have were directly approved or perhaps even mandated by Eva's own creators, in order to reflect their original intent and how the anime was originally written.
Older localisations
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The debate regarding Kaworu's line isn't new. It is in fact, reflected in our wiki:
Kaworu uses the ambiguous "suki" form which includes intimacy or friendship or anything more, and can simply mean "like" or "fond of", and that he is deserving of "koui" (好意), which means simply "good will" or "favor", not "koi", "love". When he mentions this to Misato later, Shinji also used the ambiguous "suki" form.
Some images circling around the Internet compare "the original translation" to the Netflix one. However, this is untrue. In fact, the choice of "like" is in fact more common than "love". The original ADV subtitle track, released with the original ADV VHS release in 1998, used "like", though the dub, which took some creative liberty, used "love". However, the ADV DVD re-releases used "love" for both the sub and dub. The new Netflix/Khara release uses "like" for both the sub and dub. Likewise, several fansubbers have used both "like" and "love".[15][16]
Additionally, the "koui" has been misheard by some early fansubbers as "koi", but the Japanese subtitles as well as the scripts for the show make it clear this is not the case. "koi" refers to romantic love as a concept, but "koui" is quite neutral, referring to good will, favour, sympathy, regard, appreciation etc. Some screenshots from a pre-2000 fansub with this mistake are also being circulated. The ADV VHS, ADV DVD and Netflix/Khara subs render this as "sympathy", "regard" and "grace", respectively.[17]
The nature of Kaworu's lines
Much like the rest of Evangelion, the discussion of Kaworu's lines is extensive and polarizing both in Western and Japanese fandoms, not because of the words he used, but what he means by them.
While this article will not concern itself with trying to interpret Kaworu's intentions, the episode or the character, this ambiguity is completely necessary and present in the original Japanese script as Kaworu is not entirely human and shows clear lack of understanding of levels of intimacy, personal space and societal norms, key aspects in Japanese society. In fact, this is probably one of the reasons why Shinji is so shocked by him - he does not act or talk like a normal person, because he isn't one. Interpretations of Kaworu himself also vary wildly, including some that range from him as manipulative, or simply unaware. Simply put, one is not supposed to wonder what he says, but what he means.
The usage of "suki" in Japanese is complicated - in the way it's present in the original text, it can be used to signify friendship, affection, appreciation, intimacy, fondness, platonic love, romantic love, godly love, and everything in between. Like the rest of Eva, it is necessary to try and get the context for this in order to understand what the text is trying to get across. Regardless of what one thinks Kaworu means, the fact is that the original Japanese text is deliberately written as ambiguous and open-ended, and invites all of these interpretations. If the original Japanese text chose to use, more specific words like "Ai" or "Aishiteru", which explicitly mean romantic love, that would have a specific meaning, taking away the ambiguity present here. Even "daisuki", which essentially means "strong/big love/like" would have been possible. Similarly, "like" in English can be interpreted in many ways, but "love", despite also being interpretable in many ways, carries a stronger weight in English.
Some have argued that the change lessens the weight of the relationship or that it is hard to believe that Shinji would be so affected by someone just saying "like", but Shinji makes it abundantly clear that he feels he has no one that even cares about him, and Kaworu briefly makes him think otherwise, however he deposits all of this into Kaworu, and feels betrayed and used by him later. This belief that nobody cares about him is solidified and repeated later in Instrumentality both in EoE and EoTV, as Shinji even refuses to believe Misato, Asuka and Rei are genuinely nice to him, thinking it is a lie, as Shinji is even more unwilling to navigate the uncertainties and ambiguity of interacting with other humans with their own needs and desires and insecurities. Regardless of how he interprets it or how Kaworu intends it, Shinji is not looking for romantic or platonic or godly or any sort of love, but instead for an emotional crutch, for any sort of connection whatsoever, partially because Shinji himself has isolated himself from others. This is extended to him asking the same from Asuka in EoE, as well, but she demands affection from him as well and refuses to just be an escape. Shinji is, for better or worse, that pathetic (as Asuka puts it) at both these points.
Even the stranger choice, "worthy of my grace", might make more sense in retrospect. While this is a completely valid translation, it is certainly strange to just be dropped in an interpersonal conversation like Kaworu does. This might be why Shinji felt the need to ask Kaworu what he meant by that in the first place. After all, Shinji still shows a lack of reaction besides surprise to these lines and is still unsure of how to react, as the way Kaworu acts is also shocking to him. He only says something on his part later, when he says that Kaworu has betrayed him just like his father, and even when he mentions this to Misato later, he still uses suki.
Admittedly, "grace" does add some extra weight to interpretations of Kaworu as expressing a sort of godly affection for Shinji, and perhaps not just him but humanity as a whole, as Shinji seems to be some sort of avatar of humanity to him. This is backed by additional context, as Kaworu says this just after talking about human nature and fragility and human hearts. It is the most puzzling change, and might say something if it was deliberately chosen by Khara themselves. Some have claimed that Kaworu's "I think I was born to meet you" line also uses explicitly romantic language, but much like "suki", he uses a word that applies to friends, co-workers or family members just fine.[18] Because Japanese is a high-context culture[19], it is simply not possible to extract exact intentions based on the language used alone.
Cultural differences and commentaries by staff
This is not the only case where cultural nuance can get lost in translation - some people point to Kaworu telling this to Shinji in NERV's public bath (sometimes incorrectly referred to as a shower) as being further proof of romantic intentions, but as a matter of fact public baths are extremely common and casual social occurrences in Japan. Kaworu doing so in a public bath carries no specific weight at all, in fact, due to his lack of understanding of such societal norms, it probably makes no difference to him whatsoever. Public baths in Japan can be shared by friends, co-workers, classmates, but also lovers. They are about as romantic, or as casual as parks can be. Anno, in fact, has specifically explained how casual public baths are, specially in the countryside, which he is from.[20] As a matter of fact, in Episode 10, Shinji and Asuka are frustrated that they can't go on a trip that includes going to public baths, and at the end of the episode Shinji shares a public bath with Pen Pen, while Asuka shares one with Misato.
Finally, while some Westerns might think that Anno and Gainax would need to "hide" homoerotic undertones under ambiguity for fear of censorship or criticism, that is an extremely shaky idea, considering that not only have Anno and Gainax repeatedly defended their artistic decisions from heavy, scathing criticism and consciously chosen to take risky paths (the ending of the series being the most clearly example) even though they knew it might not bode well with fans, but also because of the fact that Japan, even in 1995, already had a considerable amount of what might very well be seen as LGBT media, with numerous examples of anime and manga (Sailor Moon and Utena are good temporary examples). Although Japanese society is not particularly progressive even today, it tends to have zero to no problem with homoerotic and homosexual relationships in media. In fact, it tends to be seen as a "phase" most of all or played for laughs instead of the morally reprehensible thing it could be for some Western audiences, particularly in 1995. Instead, Anno chose to inject significant levels of violence, nudity and adult themes into his work (which was originally aired in a children's time slot), which did gather some criticism but he has always defended the need for it.[21][22] As such, Anno would not really have to fear repercussions if he chose to portray a unambiguous and decidedly homoerotic relationship, nor would any notions of representation be relevant to Japanese audiences. Rather, the ambiguity in the episode allows the narrative to explore several themes related to Kaworu's character, his condition as an Angel in relation to humanity, as well as of course the moment Shinji is going under in the larger context of the story and themes, and this ambiguity and open-endedness is present throughout all of Evangelion with many other relationships Shinji has, like those with Asuka, Misato or Rei, and mainly the ultimate results they have narratively, in order to get the viewer to think about what the show is trying to say and what points it is trying to convey.
Dan Kanemitsu has specifically defended the ambiguity here:
While I am not in a position to refer specifically to the decision involved in the scene you described, in all my translation of any title, I have tried my best to be faithful to the original source material. Bar none.
The power of storytelling sometime depends on the ability of audiences to establish emotional relationships with the characters, as well as, recognize intimacy between people based on inferences.
It is one thing for characters to confess their love. It is quite another for the audience to infer affection and leave them guessing. How committed are the characters? What possible misunderstandings might be talking place? Leaving room for interpretation make things exciting.
About a month after the Netflix release, Megumi Ogata, the original Japanese VA for Shinji, also got wind of this and expressed her opinion, interpreting it as "like" and thinking the new translation is closer to the original anime:
From the original cast I thought it was "Like" within the drama/play, but conversely in the 90's era Sailormoon, those girls* were Only you "Love". Nuance is difficult. #Eva #Sailormoon (*Haruka/Michiru)
Translation is difficult. But now, the original anime is since closer in translation, personally I'm glad for each individual flow (Those girls in Sailormoon were related, "female cousins" in those days of the North American broadcasting). #Eva #Sailormoon
Music is...difficult*...I absolutely want everyone to have the opportunity to experience the atmosphere of the original (Japanese language) version, to please enjoy it❤️#Eva #Sailormoon (*Netflix International Fly me to the Moon absence)
Ogata's tweets, translated by an EvaGeeks forum member. She also contrasts this to the notorious decision of an early American adaptation of Sailor Moon, another anime she has worked on, that changed a lesbian relationship into "cousins", but agrees to the new Eva localization as being according to her interpretation and how the show was written.[23][24]
Supplemental material
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Excerpt wrongly attributed to Anno; Evangelion Chronicle Character Guide |
In order to defend one or another specific interpretations, some fans are also circulating supplemental evidence regarding this episode. A lot of this is incorrect information, however. An image of a character guide stating Kaworu is a "same-sex romantic interest" is real, but it is not an official Gainax statement. Rather, this is a character guide from two books with collected interviews, including some by Anno, called Schizo and Parano. However, this character guide was not written by Anno or anyone else from Gainax, but rather independently by the interviewer/editor themselves, Kentaro Takekuma, and is present on a section of the book separate from Anno's interviews.[25] This is also contradicted by other supplemental material, such as the Evangelion Chronicle Encyclopedia's own character guide, which lists both Kaworu and Rei as simply "Favourable feelings" in regards to Shinji, however Asuka is listed as "Complex feelings" and "Love/Hate". Usually Kaworu is either just listed as another friend[26], or not even mentioned at at all. Sometimes these guides even contradict themselves and other parts of the same material. In fact, Anno has explicitly denied "carnal feelings" on Shinji's part in an interview, one of the very few instances in which he directly explained something about Eva's plot.[27] Some interviews also seem to suggest staff was generally unaware of Kaworu leaving such a strong impression on the audience, or him even becoming popular at all.[28][29]
This is not the only instance where people have mistakenly claimed obscure pieces of Japanese text as coming straight from Anno - it has happened even with visual novel video game guides featuring routes for Kaworu with Shinji, but also Shinji with Asuka, Rei, or even Misato and Hikari. Guides such as these are written by people with usually no links to Gainax or Khara whatsoever, and often simply serve specific purposes, like such video games. Most supplemental material simply does not mention Kaworu, or put him on the same level as other characters. How much Gainax or Khara supervise them is unknown, and there is no reason to assume they are even aware of every single line written on them. This is not even exclusive to Eva, as incorrect or inconsistent information is present in supplemental material for many anime, series and films. In fact, Anno and others have repeatedly stated many times that they will not provide all the answers and want the audience to figure things out by themselves, so it would seem strange that Anno would say that and then provide a character guide directly explaining what all characters mean to one another.[30] The problem with this approach is discussed in our Theory and Analysis:What Is Canon? page.
Notes and References
- ↑ VSI Group on AnimeNewsNetwork
- ↑ 2.0 2.1 "Kanemitsu has provided translations for the staff who would eventually form Khara since the early days of General Products in 1989-1990, the retail outlet and merchandising store that complimented Gainax. He has been working with Khara on translation assistance since the very first Rebuild film in 2007. Speaking generally about his translation methods, he told ANN that he commonly consults the original creator in cases where the meaning is unclear or needs to be specified." ANN Article on the subtitle debate
- ↑ For example, when Asuka is seeing Shinji fleeing Wille with Rei, Asuka says "He's not an idiot, he's an asshole". The later dub renders this as "brat", reflecting an important plot point and Asuka's new relationship with Shinji
- ↑ Forum thread discussing the original dub here
- ↑ Dan's LinkedIn page
- ↑ Dan's website
- ↑ ANN page on Carrie
- ↑ This tweet is also mentioned in another ANN article that discusses how much control Japanese creators have over localisations. This is an enlightening read to get a better understanding of the circumstances surrounding localisations such as this. Essentially, as much as they want.
- ↑ All of these, for instance
- ↑ see the Ghost stories dub as an example of a Japanese company not caring and letting a dub studio have fun with a comical adaptation
- ↑ As a glaring example, Brazil never got an official translation, theatrical screenings or a DVD release of Evangelion 3.0, because the local distributor eventually gave up waiting on Funimation's DVD release.
- ↑ And presumably any Funimation release as well, except for the 3.0 redub
- ↑ Such as the added sound effects in EoE, like the brain splatter
- ↑ Misato's explanation of Adam and Lilith and the origin of the Angels is completely different from the original text, leading to potential confusion
- ↑ Forum thread - The newest most accurate EoE subs to date are out
- ↑ Forum thread - Neon Genesis Evangelion: Digitally Re-Created VHS Subtitles
- ↑ Some fans have suggested that this is an intentional choice to add to the ambiguity of Kaworu's lines, as "koui" being misheard as "koi" is a common mistake, even amongst both people fluent in Japanese and native speakers. However, Shinji does reply clearly with "koui", which would be strange to drop in interpersonal conversation regardless (as mentioned in another section of this article). Additionally, Megumi Ogata (Shinji) delivers the "koui" in a quite neutral and not particularly slow tone - Shinji sounds simply confused, not wondering if Kaworu meant "koi" or if Shinji misheard him as saying "koi". Assuming Anno directed this line, the fact that Shinji replied this way might mean he was just confused about it, particularly considering he was still uncomfortable with the situation. If he didn't, it might simply be because of a difference in accent, as Akira Ishida (Kaworu) pronounces it much faster. Additionally, if Dan consulted with or was even instructed by Khara to translate the line as "grace", this might say something about what they were trying to get across originally.
- ↑ Entry on the Jisho dictionary. "1. to meet; to encounter; to see逢う is often used for close friends, etc. and may be associated with drama or pathos;" The example sentences even include "I'm glad to see such a beautiful animal."
- ↑ High-context and low-context cultures on Wikpedia
- ↑ Anno: As might be expected, this was what you’d call above my tolerance level. [...] Anno: Around the time when you’re a middle school student, you often go with friends to public bath-houses and stuff, right? On the way home from school and so forth. Also, going there right after you go play at the beach, just as you are. There are more public baths in the boonies, you see. So it almost feels like a watering hole for men. Well, people don’t go washing each other’s backs or any skinship things like that. In any case, it’s a sort of place that you can all go to together, play there, and head home.
- ↑ …“EVANGELION is my life”, Anno says, “and I have put everything I know into this work. This is my entire life. My life itself!” As many fans want to know about the ending of this series, episodes 25 & 26, he says that he is making a different version and those two girls (Misato and Ritsuko) are dead in the end. He says, “I truly believe that sex and violence are part of our human life. These days in Japan, I think Japanese children need to know about those things more… instead of being protected too much from the society. Those matters are a little like a poison: we need to give them to the children little by little to establish an immunity, so they would have the ability and mental strength to resist. A lot of youth I know just don’t have this immunity, and when something terrible happens, they can’t deal with it. In a way, the poison can be the medication at the same time, and I believe that the more we know about those things, the more we can protect ourselves against specific matters.” - Miyako Graham, Protoculture Addicts #43 quoting Anno at AX9
- ↑ Tomino: Recently there have been rice shortages from time to time, and it’s a very good thing in my opinion. It allows them to imagine a little bit more seriously a case where there really isn’t any more food. The advantage for people creating entertainment in that case is to be able to say “Sorry if it’s disturbing, but we’re showing these austere parts in anime you like as well”, in case it helps 10 or 20 years from now (laugh). Anno: Indeed, we must put a bit of poison inside our works (laugh), particularly for children. -–July 1994 issue of Animage; “Interview: Hideaki Anno vs. Yoshiyuki Tomino (Animage - 07/1994)”/“Japanese Children Averting Their Eyes From Repulsive Things…”; translated by Noh Acro for Wave Motion Cannon
- ↑ News article on this
- ↑ Ogata when asked about this in a conference: What are Shinji's feelings towards Kaworu? Friend friend friend friend. According to original poster: "One of the few responses that came out of her mouth rather than the translators. Legit "friends" for 3-4 times."
- ↑ Schizo/Parano forum thread, note from the same user responsible for translating most of the interviews Source anthology, including the vast amount of material translated from Schizo and Parano available here.
- ↑ Death & Rebith program book saying "Kaworu sought Shinji as a friend".
- ↑ Interviewer: Speaking about the blushing, is it because Shinji was happy that someone said they like him? Anno: Yes, Shinji kun really didn’t experience carnal desire there.
- ↑ I: But it caused female audiences in front of their televisions to shriek with joy. M: We never thought it will turn out like that. T: Was it not planned? M: We really only realised it afterwards and never thought of much at that time, after all we were going berserk. - Shizo/Parano interview "judging Hideaki Anno in his absence"
- ↑ H: Why hand-holding though? M: Because thats what the script said. H: (flips to the relevant page of the script) it says “touched his hand”. Isn’t it touched, but you drew “hold” (laughs). M: Because thats what the artist drew and I wasn’t really too concerned and ok-ed it. (laughs) there was basically no time. - NGE Storyboards Collection, Vol.3-4
- ↑ Statements by Evangelion Staff: Protoculture Addicts #43 (NewType 11/1996) "Evangelion is like a puzzle, you know. Any person can see it and give his/her own answer. In other words, we're offering viewers to think by themselves, so that each person can imagine his/her own world. We will never offer the answers, even in the theatrical version. As for many Evangelion viewers, they may expect us to provide the 'all-about Eva' manuals, but there is no such thing. Don't expect to get answers by someone. Don't expect to be catered to all the time. We all have to find our own answers." -PA #43, translated by Miyako Graham from 11/96 Newtype