Theory and Analysis Talk:List of Common Misconceptions
There are some more I have in mind- these might be misconceptions on my side, or they might be for real.
- I'm starting to doubt whether the souls in the Evas are actually needed to move the things-simulation bodies, Eva 03 and the Mass Production Evas being cases in doubt. Just imagine the chaos that could be caused if an MP Eva's soul "awakened", decided that it had enough of Third Impact and went AWOL. Even the AT field generation seems suspect- nowhere is it mentioned how the physical barrier comes into existence. Rei and Kaworu, being created from and containing the souls of Lilith and Adam respectively, might not be made of the same matter that humans are and have no trouble physically manifesting those barriers in Episode 24. I'll get to this matter on a T&A page, if it's all right to voice it out.
- The armor that encases the Evas is actually organic in nature, and not just ordinary metal plates. In Episode 02, Eva 01 regenerates the arm armor, and in Episode 23, Eva 00 converts to a giant Rei before it explodes, armor and all. The armor on the Mass Production Evas glows when the S2 engines go to full power. That armor obviously isn't part of the Eva, but it has to be organic or somehow biologically compatible. How else does it serve, as Ritsuko says in Episode 19, as a restraint to bind the Evas to Nerv's will?
Ah, one more before I'm done: is it explicitly necessary for an Eva pilot to have a deceased mother, or is that just a misconception of sorts brought on by the fact that Kensuke and three of the Children have deceased mothers? --UrsusArctos 23:01, 6 August 2007 (EDT)
- Eva 01 regenerates once, and I think that might be more of a goof/subject for discussion, than a straightfoward misconception. --V 11:56, 8 August 2007 (EDT)
- In Episode 23(Director's cut), the whole of Eva 00 turns to a giant Rei, armor and all. And that's not counting the "creeping veins" effect seen on both Eva 00 and Eva 01. --UrsusArctos 12:41, 8 August 2007 (EDT)
- Even the AT field generation seems suspect- nowhere is it mentioned how the physical barrier comes into existence. That the A.T. Field is generated by the soul / is a manifestation of the "ego" is one of NGE's basic tenets. No soul, no ATF.
- How the simulation bodies work is something that needs to be attended to. Offhand, I think a connection is being made to the Evas through the simulation bodies. The supplemental materials I have could provide elaboration, assuming I or someone else gets around to translating them.
- The "EVA-01 regenerating artificial stuff" bit in #02 is an error. The depiction of the arm at the beginning of that cut is a continuity error in and of itself. Nothing can be gleaned from this cut aside from the fact that EVA-01 demonstrates an ability to heal her broken arm spontaneously.
- The restraints of Adam and the Eva Series, feasibly, glow because their Super Solenoids are generating THAT much power (if you follow my meaning). There is no evidence in the show supporting the assertion that the restraints are organic.
- How else does it serve, as Ritsuko says in Episode 19, as a restraint to bind the Evas to Nerv's will? It does something to suppress the Evas' uber-powers and ability to act independently. Insert speculation here.
- It's arguable whether EVA-00 can be interpreted as literally undergoing the transformation we see -- the armor and umbilical cable doing a "fade out" is somewhat suspicious.
- --Reichu 13:28, 8 August 2007 (EDT)
- @The first point: what of Unit-00's A.T. Field? It doesn't seem very powerful in the battle against Zeruel, but shouldn't it have been a lot more powerful? After all, the soul inside is part of Lilith's own soul, and the third Rei generates a monster A.T. Field to match Kaworu's. --UrsusArctos 12:41, 8 August 2007 (EDT)
- Unit-00's A.T. Field should have been strong in theory, but does Rei 2 know how to take full advantage of it? When she generates a massive A.T. Field in Ep. 24, Rei 3 has been cued in to her true identity by Kaworu. --thewayneiac Aug. 08, 2007. 22:06 EDT.
- I think a connection is being made to the Evas through the simulation bodies. That was my conclusion as well. Basically, when the "veins" appear on Eva 00 I take that as that the flesh beneath the armor is bubbling and making veins and its just pushing up the armor. As for the armor fading away....I thought it was a bit of wacky animation, but basically that the whole organic being bursts apart the armor as it transforms into Rei. --V 14:52, 8 August 2007 (EDT)
- basically that the whole organic being bursts apart the armor as it transforms into Rei: Were this the case, I would have presumed consistency. I.e., actually depict the armor flying off to reveal a Giant Naked Rei, or whatever. We don't see physical objects simply fade out of existence elsewhere in NGE, IIRC, which makes me think a completely literal interpretation of the cut is somewhat problematic. --Reichu 15:36, 8 August 2007 (EDT)
Only 14 year olds
Ritsuko does say, directly, that only 14 year olds can pilot Evas in Episode 04. Of course, there's always the possibility that she was lying to Misato (again), and that physically they don't need to be 14, they just need to be the child of someone who's soul they have. But that's more for a Theory and Analysis page, than a straightfoward "misconception". --V 11:55, 8 August 2007 (EDT)
- Ritsuko's statement is falsified by virtue of the fact that Rei didn't come into existence until 2005, making Rei 2 ten years old at most, and possibly five years old (depending on when Rei 2 and up were generated). --Reichu 13:28, 8 August 2007 (EDT)
- ..well Rei still has the physical body of a 14 year old; so how is that any different?--V 15:11, 8 August 2007 (EDT)
- It introduces another factor to take into account, and you really can't take what Ritsuko says at face value any more. --Reichu 15:36, 8 August 2007 (EDT)
- Because she's a filthy liar and a hussy secretly frelling Gendo? --V 15:50, 8 August 2007 (EDT)
- Chalk that up to things that Anno-tachi changed their minds on, methinks. --UrsusArctos 21:41, 8 August 2007 (EDT)
- I always thought Ritsuko's statement in ep04 wasn't saying only 14 year olds can pilot Eva, but as a response to Misato's previous statement referring to the children. i.e. We have to entrust piloting to these children, the 14 year olds. --Ornette
- Do we have a direct quote of the original Japanese, and an examination of translation of Ritsuko's line?--V 23:10, 9 August 2007 (EDT)
Rei is a special case (Lilith's soul and all that). I don't think we can apply the same rules to her that apply to anyone else. So I take it at face value that the other pilots have to be 14. --thewayneiac Aug. 08, 2007. 22:06 EDT.
- "So I take it at face value that the other pilots have to be 14." Does that mean that they can only be pilots between the ages of 13 and 15? "Asuka's synch ratio sucks an awful lot today." "Well, it's her 15th birthday..." ::p
- This entire issue is direly problematic, since there is absolutely no information (AFAIK) explicating "why that age?", and Rei's age falsifies Ritsuko's claim. If one wants to claim that Rei is a "special case", thus Ritsuko's statement can still be "taken at face value", one has to create a case justifying why she can get around whatever unknown "rule" purportedly requires "normal" pilots to be 14. --Reichu 22:18, 8 August 2007 (EDT)
Let's try looking at this from a different direction. Why would they use 14 year old pilots if they didn't have to? If the only requirement is "This kid's mother works here so we can knock her off and grab her soul", then whey aren't some of them 13 or 15, or even 12, 16, or 17? --thewayneiac Aug. 09, 2007 19:18 EDT.
- even if Reichu's view that the 14 year olds thing doesn't hold up, enough of us (myself, Wayneiac) think it seems to be true, that it is more the subject for an Analysis page than a blanket listing as a "misconception": This is why I was iffy about having a "common misconceptions" page, because I thought we might end up declaring things misconceptions which aren't. Keep working on this page though ^_^ as it is unfinished, I'm just saying "we should be careful how we handle this". --V 20:38, 9 August 2007 (EDT)
The entry is more or less a placeholder and is likely to be moved. I can imagine the whole dubious issue of age requirements being mentioned as a side note in an upcoming article on the "soulless kids" misconception, with a link to a relevant T&A page, since that particular fallacy seems to have originated from those same lines by Ritsuko in episode 4.
And so as to keep the talk page from getting too cluttered, please continue any theoretical discussions on a more proper forum. Thank you. --Dr. Nick 04:26, 14 August 2007 (EDT)
I had to use the work "mindfuck" because I couldn't think of a suitable synonym, and also, it seems there's quite a few pages on wikipedia that uses it. Did I miss any arguments about Anno taking revenge against the fans? --Ornette 00:37, 22 September 2007 (PDT)
A.T. Field =/= Psychological term
Since "online research" doesn't sound particularly reliable, could it be said that those of us who do/used to study Psychology have never seen such a term either?--Szmitten 17:39, 25 October 2007 (PDT)
- Are there such experts among us? In any case, don't remove the online research part yet: it will be expanded, assuming the relevant emails have been preserved in Reichu's archives. --Dr. Nick 09:13, 26 October 2007 (PDT)
What do we do about this?
There are a lot of these headings with no text whatsoever, and some, like the part about the Super Solenoid's location, are contradictory (One misconception against its exact opposite). And I thought we were going to merge/split/get rid of this page? --UrsusArctos 08:18, 23 January 2008 (PST)
- Why on earth would we want to get rid of this page? Some of the more complex misconceptions may eventually need to be split into separate articles (as has been done with the Zero's soul bit), but we must always have an all-inclusive list of sorts, for easy and fast access.
- Also, the solenoid entries are not contradictory, just badly worded I guess: The core is not the same thing as the Super Solenoid, but the S^2 does reside inside the core. Or that's what Reichu and co. have been telling me. And not that I doubt it, but PROVE IT OR LOSE IT, PEOPLE. --Dr. Nick 11:36, 23 January 2008 (PST)
- You know, I think it'd be better if I got rid of that one for the time being. --UrsusArctos 16:43, 23 January 2008 (PST)
- What do you intend to merge this with, V?--UrsusArctos 19:21, 23 January 2008 (PST)