EvaWiki talk:Standards and Conventions (Eva-Specific)

Director's Cut Episodes

In my view this is backwards. The director's cuts should treated as the default (see the tiers of canonicity) and the subsection should explain how the original episode was different. --thewayneiac Aug.02, 2007 15:53 EDT.

While the new information in the Director's Cuts do supercede the original episodes, the point was just that episodes 21 onwards will explain what was added into the director's cuts in a special subsection. --V 17:44, 2 August 2007 (EDT)

If I'm reading that correctly then there is no problem. The episode summary will describe the Director's cut, and then the subsection will explain what portions of the above were additions. I thought you meant the summary would describe the on air version, and then the subsection would say, "These things were added to the above." --thewayneiac Aug. 02, 2007 22:16 EDT.

On a related sort of note, V wrote in the S&C doc, an original episode would be "Episode 21" but the Director's Cut would be "Episode 21'" (Note: apostrophes screw up wiki code and I actually think this would cause problems with the wiki-code Reichu, though not insurmountable ones; get back to me on this). A way around this would be to use the special symbol ’ instead -- another reason why we need to somehow implement the "big list of things you can insert really quickly and easily" box that Wikipedia has... --Reichu 10:47, 8 August 2007 (EDT)

Oh...you mean the Prime symbol; that would work. Hey, where is the key for that on a qwerty keyboard? What big list? --V 11:36, 8 August 2007 (EDT)

Oh, so that's the "prime symbol"? Nifty. There's no key for it on a QWERTY keyboard; you need to go to extra lengths to insert it. Well, unless we get that big insert box... Since you don't seem to know what I'm talking about, go "Edit" some random Wikipedia page, and you'll see that there's a huge box full of special characters below the edit window. --Reichu 12:19, 8 August 2007 (EDT)

Episode Notation

The articles have come as a bit of a "shock" to me, since I've been in this longtime habit of putting a # in front of the episode number, and only capitalizing "episode" when it is at the beginning of a sentence. This isn't based on anything particularly concrete, just personal habit.

[We can't do this in HTML as a # symbol in a url denotes a link within a page. Hash is right out for the article title. Notch this one up as a technical issue.ObsessiveMathsFreak 19:29, 7 August 2007 (EDT)]

The second titles for the episodes use the format EPISODE:##, but this is sort of weird.

I'm guessing people will want to use "Episode ##"? A rule should be established for this, in any case. And for referencing episodes in shorthand, as well. (Having the # in front of the episode number came in handy for shorthand referencing. "In #04...") --Reichu 17:16, 7 August 2007 (EDT)

We shouldn't refer to them as "#04" because the "#" symbol is a hotkey on Mediawiki-code which automatically generates a numbered list. You could use "Episode #04" if you really wanted, but it seems kind of redundant with "Episode 04". As long as the word "Episode" is in front that doesn't really matter, (though I think it redundant), but "#04" would screw up the wiki-code. --V 18:56, 7 August 2007 (EDT)

The '#' symbol is fine within regular text and code, as you can see on this page. We just can't use it in article names or headings. See above.ObsessiveMathsFreak 19:29, 7 August 2007 (EDT)

Goddamn MediaWiki, always ruining my fun. Well, I can give up my pound signs, via vigorous retraining, but how would shorthand work? Writing out "Episode ##" all the time is a pain in the ass. I remember people liking "e##"; I think I used it once upon a time. --Reichu 19:24, 7 August 2007 (EDT)

I think we can still do that. What exactly do you need?ObsessiveMathsFreak 19:29, 7 August 2007 (EDT)

What do you mean, "what do I need"? --Reichu 20:06, 7 August 2007 (EDT)

Well I don't really have a problem with writing "Episode 12" as opposed to "She Said, "Don't Make Others Suffer for Your Personal Hatred."" a million times ^_^ --V 11:31, 8 August 2007 (EDT)

Harpies' Weapon (Mode 1)

Here's another one for everybody: The script refers to the initial incarnation of the harpies' weapons as Omoi Yari (Heavy Spear/Lance/Whatever), but this is used practically nowhere else. Everywhere else, I see ooken, which is Japanese for "huge-ass sword". To reinforce the point, Japanese 'web usage as per Google:

• EVANGELION + "omoi yari" = 25 [81 with just "EVA"]
• EVANGELION + "ooken" = 10,700

--Reichu 19:27, 7 August 2007 (EDT)

"Heavy Spear" gets used alot more in other material and translations than "huge-ass sword". --V 11:30, 8 August 2007 (EDT)

I don't think I've seen "Heavy Spear" used by anyone other than me. On the other hand, fans refer to the weapon as "sword" quite a lot, simply on account of its appearance. ("Huge-ass" was a colorful way of saying "big".)

Incidentally, real "heavy spears" (at least, those that come up on English language searches) look absolutely nothing like what the harpies lug around. --Reichu 12:19, 8 August 2007 (EDT)

Kyoko

I think this got switched Reichu: is it officially "Kyoko Zeppelin Soryu" or "Kyoko Soryu Zeppelin" on here?--V 19:06, 7 August 2007 (EDT)

" Asuka and Kyoko's Japanese surnames are placed after their European ones due to the "name swap" custom -- I'm going to take this as "use Kyoko Zeppelin Soryu"--V 19:08, 7 August 2007 (EDT)

Yup. --Reichu 19:27, 7 August 2007 (EDT)

LCL

Acronym

> and the explanation that it is an acronym standing for "Link Connect Liquid" might not be entirely canon.

If my memory serves me correctly, that acronym is an entirely unofficial creation coined by ADV in the liner notes of their old VHS versions. But don't take my word for it. --Dr. Nick 20:26, 3 August 2007 (EDT)

Incidentally, Chronicle parrots Scott's suggestion that one of the Ls stands for "Lilith". ;;p --Reichu 20:06, 7 August 2007 (EDT)

LCL vs L.C.L.

I finally remembered that this term is shown in the show when Kaji and Kaworu enter the "L.C.L. Plant". Uh-oh... --Reichu 17:16, 7 August 2007 (EDT)

I have seen it as both "LCL" and "L.C.L."....but it would indeed appear to be an acronym. Um, you should figure that out so we can finalize it.--V 18:53, 7 August 2007 (EDT)

I mentioned in some thread or another, Oddly, the script uses "LCL", but other sources, like the theatrical programs and Chronicle (the first two I checked), use "L.C.L.". But any in-show computer display would provide the "final say", in my opinion. So "L.C.L. Plant" ought to be the final say, while making typing much more annoying. --Reichu 19:24, 7 August 2007 (EDT)

Lilim = 18th Angel

"There are some who ardently consider humans to be the "18th Angel". <snip>"

I had always taken Misato's words at face value; if we are to question the "18th Angel" bit, we might as well question everything else in that rather important expository monologue. "If someone doesn't 'get' how hominids can be an 'Angel', that's their problem".

Reichu's vote: Simply go with what Misato says, as there is nothing that contradicts it. Other pages can explore the intricacies of the matter. (BTW, remember those cards EvaOtaku loves so much? There's one for "18th Angel: Man".) --Reichu 16:16, 7 August 2007 (EDT)

I thought that monologue was in error, but reading up on it I believe the "error" was in referring to Lilith as progeny of Adam, which she ain't. Um, I would put this to vote. I took a "hands off" approach and was just putting all of the information out there, that is, explaining the whole situation on the "Lilim" page and just saying "to be on the safe side, just say "there's 17 Angels" under normal circumstances. You could change this around if you want I have no strong feelings one way or the other, please discuss. --V 18:52, 7 August 2007 (EDT)

"I believe the "error" was in referring to Lilith as progeny of Adam" = Translation Blooper. There is nothing contradicting any of what Misato says. Ergo, take it all at "face value" (as Shin-seiki said in the Good Old Days): Misato reveals that there is an "18th Angel", and that Angel is us.

Dealing with the significant Angel/human semantic problem is a whole 'nother thing. --Reichu 19:24, 7 August 2007 (EDT)

Pen-Squared

V wrote: Write the name of Misato's pet penguin as "Pen Pen" (without a dash), not "Pen²", as "Pen²" is more difficult to use.

...Any more difficult than S² or N²? But, more to the point, if Pen² is rejected on the basis of "user-unfriendliness", how do we decide which variation of the Romanization (katakana --> PENPEN) to use? Pen Pen? PenPen? Pen-Pen? Penpen? I did a very crude Google Test (no way to get quick and easy results, since all of the variations are the same in Google's eyes) and counted up the occurences on the first five pages of results. Allow some room for error.

• Pen Pen: 19
• PenPen: 15
• Pen-Pen: 7
• Penpen: 6

Guess V's choice wins after all? --Reichu 10:47, 8 August 2007 (EDT)

Well it wasn't my choice and I actually don't care one way or the other; you see the Pen Pen article was created before I got here, and in that version http://evacommentary.org/evawiki/index.php?title=Pen_Pen&oldid=4076 was already spelled "Pen Pen", as well as in the already created character template, so I just assumed that was what you decided already. Btw....Pen Pen is God?--V

Rei, Rei, and Rei

The usage I commonly see for referencing Rei's three main incarnations is "Rei" followed by a Roman numeral. However, I only recall I, II, III being used in episode titles. When referred to specific Rei, Arabic numerals are used in the script (#25), and see also the listing for the Reiquarium (04, 05, 06...). --Reichu

Oh okay, I'll switch it to "Rei 1", "Rei 2", and "Rei 3". --V 11:27, 8 August 2007 (EDT)

Scope of S&C

Exactly what is the scope of this page supposed to be?

I say this because some of the included guidelines are fine in some instances and needlessly restrictive in others. For example, in the pages where we have actual fan-geeks "talking", people were always allowed to go into "Weeaboo Mode", within reason. And by "W.M.", I mean casually using things like honorifics, random Japanese terminology (Eva designations, etc.), and perhaps worse here and there. It's been so long, I honestly can't remember what I "let in".

I'll be revising this bit, unless there are objections. --Reichu 16:16, 7 August 2007 (EDT)

"fan-geeks "talking", people were always allowed to go into "Weeaboo Mode", within reason. And by "W.M.", I mean casually using things like honorifics, random Japanese terminology (Eva designations, etc.), and perhaps worse here and there. It's been so long, I honestly can't remember what I "let in". -- "Using a lot of Japanese terminology, i.e. calling him "Shinji-kun" in passing, will deeply confuse new people. As this is meant to be an English-language Eva Wiki...quest...thing, then we shouldn't punish people for not knowing what the Japanese honorifics are. As I said, if it is of some plot significance (i.e. "notice that Shinji called Misato "Katsuragi-sama"...) it should be pointed out. However, using Japanese words alot will make the site insular and cliquey, when its meant to be accessible to all people. Remember: we already know most of this stuff. Half of the point of this thing is to educate newbies and turn them into non-newbies. The other half, though, is finding out stuff on our own through further analysis, pushing the boundares of knowledge, etc. We should also refrain from using internet slang terms that people might not understand at first glance. The whole thing is supposed to be "Accessible" and I stand by this decision. As for the Eva designations....we might let that once pass by, but as that would be inconsistent, I'm personally not in favor of it. --V 18:48, 7 August 2007 (EDT)

The scope of Standards and Conventions is just to tell people conventions regarding things like spelling and capitalization, etc. of specific *terms particular to the Evangelion source material*. Things like rules for behavior of editors, and instructions on how to edit stuff, go in the other policy articles. --V 18:50, 7 August 2007 (EDT)

I'm all for letting people go Weeaboo and memerific in the sections permitted the Fangeek Touch, applicable in people's FGC comments and elsewhere. That's always been part of the site's unique character. As for being "insular and cliquey" -- whatever we were doing Way Back When, it didn't seem to bother the various random people who have contacted me over the years, so I'm not going to fix what wasn't broken.

It's all about "there's a time and a place", know what I mean? --Reichu 19:05, 7 August 2007 (EDT)

Weeaboo stuff

1. I don't know what Weeaboo means
2. Oh yeah, Japanese stuff like "poor Sachi-chan" can be used in the other parts of the greater FGP stuff, I just meant that like in an episode guide part on here, you can't just assume people know the honorifics. Looks good. --V 11:47, 8 August 2007 (EDT)

Oh, right, I was going to provide a link to the definition of "weeaboo"... Very useful term, that. --Reichu 12:19, 8 August 2007 (EDT)

Source of Life vs. Seed of Life

I wonder if the fact that "Seed of Life" is only used in the CI (AFAIK) should feature into a decision about which of these to use? Though I did a Google Test here, just for lulz:

• EVA(NGELION) + seimei no tane [Seed of Life] = 1,790
• EVA(NGELION) + seimeitai no minamoto [Source of Life] = 399

Hmmm... Maybe I shouldn't question the "Seed of Life" decision, after all. --Reichu 19:27, 7 August 2007 (EDT)