Talk:Shinji and Asuka's Relationship

Dubious?

So UrsusArctos insists this page is dubious...?

I don't see it at all, tbh. This page has been 90% the same since 2008, but has been updated by countless users over the years. It's not the work of any one person, but it has stood her for longer than I'd assume the majority of the users have. It does assert some conclusions that some users might disagree with (as would any "Theory and Analysis" article, really), but nothing that's not substantially backed-up with logical evidence from the show. --Kasunex 21:24, 1 June 2021 (EST)

I see it everywhere. And "90% the same since 2008" is as blatantly dubious as any of V's statements. Take a look at how much editing one person (Felipe) has done over the past three years. The article's edit history is available to everyone. --UrsusArctos (talk) 03:54, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

It might help if you gave some examples here of what you're considering dubious. Also why you slapped the article with those other tags.

It's true that Felipe has edited a lot of late - which, barring other reasons we should be thanking him for, of course. But the core argument and structure of the article has remained largely unchanged since 2008. Heck, I remember it being largely the same when I first watched the show back in 2014. Really the biggest change since then is that it no longer outright says Shinji and Asuka are supposed to be a couple.

Of course, I may be wrong, but it's up to you to provide your reasoning. --Kasunex 7:27, 2 June 2021 (EST)

Well, I'm not sure what's dubious about how much has changed when it is easily available as was just mentioned. See the page as it was before my first edit, and the diff compared to now. I (and 4 other users) added not much text to the body of the article (proportionately to what was already there) instead mostly images, official sources, and some sections which were unbalanced were adjusted - note the one which blatantly said "yes, they're a couple". This was brought up in mid 2019 and discussed with a bunch of users before I took the initiative to change it into a more neutral version, you can also find the discussion on the Discord. It was never a problem until apparently this random mega ADV fan brought it up.
In addition the body by thewayneiac, it's actually got a lot of minor contributions by a number of people, more than the average page on this wiki. We all know some people dislike what they see on the wiki even if it's backed up by mountain of official evidence. This page is well read and well respected, I've seen repeated praise aimed at it over the the years.
Again, I'll leave it be for now.FelipeFritschF (talk) 13:01, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

In love with each other

"In other words, they were in love with eachother, but never hit it off. "
I don't think this is true. --Ornette 10:54, 20 February 2008 (PST)

I wasn't responsible for that, the only thing I did was make a few rough notes in the form of the 1st paragraph....Did V add some stuff or something?? WTF. Anyway, they Asuka & Shinji were interested in each other for sure, but their relationship is...complicated. --Sailor Star Dust 12:40, 13 March 2008 (PDT)

What V said...it was Sachi's addition. I'll remove it, since it makes things look way too simple.--UrsusArctos 17:51, 13 March 2008 (PDT)

NemZ Updates

Sorry for the delay in finishing this... I decided to watch the series over again from ep8 onward to refresh my memory before getting down to the real meat of the article. This is a huge topic with a lot of nuance to cover, so please bear with me.--NemZ 20:03, 21 April 2009 (PDT)

You're a real trooper for working on this monster. One thing it could possibly benefit from is in-text citations of dialogue. (Or, perhaps in less critical cases, footnotes using the ref format.) In my experience, Eva fans are more easily persuaded when both dialogue and screenshots are right there accompanying one's arguments. (In a lot of cases, this is the ONLY way to persuade them.) --Reichu 09:46, 10 May 2009 (PDT)

I just want to get my thoughts all down on 'paper' first, but that sort of evidence would be a good addition, sure. I think the footnotes plan might be better, seeing as how the main body of this article is going to be pretty long-winded as it is.--NemZ 11:01, 13 July 2009 (PDT)

I don't think I can write anything here anymore that won't just cause a massive argument. My ideas about these two have obviously shifted outside the generally accepted and I no longer can see the DC episodes as anything but a retcon which changes the relationship significantly dependng on which version of the story is being discussed.--NemZ 12:37, 14 November 2009 (PST)

O.K., I'll try to finish it myself with a more mainstream EvaGeeks P.O.V. I disagree about the Retcon.-- thewayneiac 8:00 P.M. EST. Nov. 16, 2009

Cleanup

I've marked this with the "cleanup" template. Does it really need to be in this "he said, she said" format, with every incident described twice? It's making it seem really long and draggy. I propose making it more linear, with each incident described once, along with discussion of the characters' motivations. (I'll also try to do something about the overall tone.) thewayneiac 9:49 AM EDT. July 5, 2009.

I asked about the format before I started, and explained the pros and cons of split vs. unified. I got no feedback, so I went with my gut. I still feel that running them as two separate lines will ultimately lead to a clearer understanding of how the situation developed as it did through miscommunication than having to cover both sides at once. I'll be getting back to this very soon. --NemZ 20:56, 12 July 2009 (PDT)

O.K., I won't fiddle with the format until I see the finished product. But I think it might be easier to follow if you were to organize each of the two main headings into subheadings, as I did with the Episode 15 subsection I added to the Asuka section. Do you have any thoughts on what I added? I actually did it as part of my episode guide cleanup. The shadowed-eyes business was way too detailed for the Ep. 15 page and needed to be moved here. --thewayneiac 10:48 EDT. July 13, 2009.

I've been sorta doing that by using the multi-picture inserts for each major shift, but I see what you mean. Episode-by-episode is probably too much, but more broad thematic lines of the relationship (introduction, growing closeness, confrontation, and collapse) might work. The final scene of EoE I think needs to be it's own section entirely though because it's just so damned vague and there's no good way to solidly look at it from either character's perspective with any kind of authority. I'm also not sure the whole shadowed eyes thing fits here either, honestly... maybe a theory page just on interpreting visual expression cues? It's a rather important subject, especially with all the "Rei has no emotions lol" types still floating about.--NemZ 10:58, 13 July 2009 (PDT)

The eye shadow business needs to be there because it tells us what she thinks of Shinji's lack of response without reference to the material added to Episode 22. --thewayneiac 21:42 EDT. July 13, 2009.

Is this article eventually going to be written as a more neutral point of view instead of supposedly from Asuka and Shinji's POV? It works, but it's impossible for it to be completely from the character's point of view when we don't always know what they're thinking. In general I thought it's best for T&A pages (and the site as a whole) to be from something of a neutral stand-point anyway... I'll try to add some things in terms of dialouge/images when I find the time. --Sailor Star Dust 18:50, 17 April 2010 (UTC)

The whole "he said she said" structure was Nemz's idea. I never cared for it myself, and I intend to merge the halves and correct the POV soon. (When I get a break from working on the commentary.) Besides, he has some pretty screwy ideas here. --thewayneiac 10:35 PM EDT. April 17, 2010