Talk:Japanese name suffices

Notes to editors: Yeah, "suffices" is the plural of "suffix". I wonder how many people don't know that...

I found that I couldn't write about the characters without mentioning these (and not have it feel like an "omission"). Hence, we should just have one big page that explains all of them, to which any mention of these suffices in the encyclopedia could link.

This page will provide coverage of various things we see attached to people's names in NGE. This includes the usual stuff, like -san, -kun, -chan, and -sama ("Misato-sama", LOL), and, of course, -sensei and -sen/mpai are fine too (need to agree on which romaji to use for the latter). If we feel like it, we can go into title-specific things, like -hakase (Dr., as in Ph.D.), -shirei (Commander), -sansa (Captain), and so on. Be ejimicational.

Please cite your sources (which can include actually citing them if it's for more specific tidbits or just including them as general refs at the end). And, as always, Wikipedia Is Not A Reference.

"Category 1, 2, 3" are there because I couldn't think of appropriate descriptions at the time... Also not entirely sure what the right category for this article would be. --Reichu 11:31, 24 August 2007 (EDT)

I would create a new category for articles like this called "Cultural".

I would go with "sempai" because that is the standard transliteration, but explain that "senpai" is the literal transliteration, but is phonetically rendered "sempai".

Even though it's not used (I believe) in Evangelion, you should go ahead and include -dono, and explain that it's a little archaic. --thewayneiac Aug. 24, 2007 11:42 EDT.

1. As stated in the (unfinished) Standards and Conventions, we should never casually use Japanese suffices and honorifics unless directly quoting a line of dialogue from the script. This should only be if you're pointing out something particularly notable (i.e. in EoE when Gendo calls Fuyutsuki "Sensei" but he means "professor", etc.)
2. I think this should be moved to a broader "Japanese terminology and culture" section of sorts, explaining specific things that appear in the show which North American audiences might not get; and on that article "Japanese honorifics" would be a major subsection. --V 13:21, 24 August 2007 (EDT)

"unless directly quoting a line of dialogue from the script": Right now, we're not exactly quoting from any scripts that include honorifics. (Although I encourage people to put them back in.)

I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "casual"; you'd have to provide examples. Is pointing out that, say, Fuyutsuki consistently slaps -kun onto Yui's name "casual"? What about Yui's regard for Fuyutsuki as "sensei" or Maya's regard for Ritsuko as "sempai"? There's Shinji's "sensei", as well. This aren't the sorts of things we need to let slip by the wayside or vanish into the gutter of "heavily simplified translation".

Regarding EoE, I don't think Gendo means "professor" exactly; if he did, he would have used -kyouju (as he did back when Fuyutsuki was actually a Professor and Gendo was bothering with formal speech for a change). --Reichu 14:44, 24 August 2007 (EDT)

Oh I meant quoting from the dialogue to make a specific point; Fuyutsuki calling her Yui-kun, Fuyutsuki as "sensei", and especially Ritsuko as "sempai" to Maya, are all "relevant" and "making a point". What I'm *trying to avoid* is that in the Synopsis, we can't just say "Shinji-kun returns to Class 2-A to find that Rei is absent once again". Nor can we have it that the Synopsis says "Fuyutsuki meets Yui again and she says "Hello, sensei"" without elaboration....just assume that the readers have no idea whatsoever about Japanese honorifics, and that the page in question might be the first one they read on the site (do not assume that because you explained what "-sama" means in episode 1 that you don't have to explain it again in the article for episode 10, as they might be read out of order). But really, things like what you listed at "noteworthy" and get an entry in the "Notes" section. I'm just trying to avoid persistently, say, referring to Shinji as "Shinji-kun" (unless directly quoting the dialogue, i.e. "Misato wakes up and says "good morning, Shinji-kun"") and of course, refraining from the use of informal monickers like "Sachi-chan". --V 14:56, 24 August 2007 (EDT)

I included some general notes of things I've long known upon learning some Japanese ages ago (hence no sources) for categories 1 and 2. It's general stuff, but at least it's a start. Perhaps somebody with a better understanding of the hierarchy with different groups in Japan could add more to this, too. (Sensei is intentionally left untranslated as now that I think about it; I'm not sure what the literal meaning would be, if it's just "teacher" or what.) Anyway, I think having a page like this is an excellent idea. Should we have some sort of disclaimer for people who'd want to use the honorifics that you should NEVER use certain ones (chan, kun, etc) as well as refer to somebody by their first name unless you KNOW you're in a close relationship with them? --Sailor Star Dust 16:25, 26 August 2007 (EDT)

The guide's intro will establish its purpose.

I encourage the uncovering of authoritative-sounding sauce from Google. Here's an example I had lying around in my bookmarks: Japanese Name Suffixes [sic]. Some amount of research is crucial, but it shouldn't be too hard. (Plug the basic set of suffices into Google, and wham!)

@ -kun, the only times (in anime, anyway, which is a stylization of Real Life) I've heard it used on girls is Fuyutsuki on Yui (don't take that the wrong way...), Gendo on Ritsuko, Ilpalazzo on Hyatt and Excel, and a male teacher in DBZ on one of his female students (a tomboy named Videl). I can't say I "get" this one. Maybe research will illuminate upon the matter. --Reichu 16:39, 26 August 2007 (EDT)

@-kun, one of the things I noticed in Japan, as well as with the Japanese exchange students that lived with me, someone (male or female) that's good friends with a male will use -kun with his name, someone (male or female that's good friends with a female will use -chan with her name. Using -chan with a good male friend can range between being "cute" to teasing, depending on the situation. I've also seen this happen in anime quite often. --Ornette 23:50, 26 September 2007 (PDT)