Difference between revisions of "Theory and Analysis:EoTV vs. EoE"

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{{tone}}  
 
{{tone}}  
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T&A page about EoTV vs EoE, analyzing whether they can be seen as complimentary, literally concurrent, and/or (oh horrors!) opposite endings.
+
T&A page about EoTV vs EoE, analyzing whether they can be seen as complementary, literally concurrent, and/or opposite endings.
  
−
Break down into sections about the pros and cons (fix wording later, not what I mean >_<) of the three ideas as well as the final verdict based on the evidence the series gives us (Not just stuff from EoTV or EoE, but from the rest of the series as well. For instance, Shinji's various citations of the word "here" (koko) during his internal mind trips (Personal Hell train); "Do you want to become one with me?"; etc; etc)
+
Breaking it down into sections about the pros and cons of the three ideas as well as the final verdict based on the evidence the series gives to the audience (Not just stuff from EoTV or EoE, but from the rest of the series as well. For instance, Shinji's various citations of the word "here" (koko) during his internal mind trips (Personal Hell train); "Do you want to become one with me?"; etc; etc)
  
−
Also: mention somewhere in the opposite endings section as a counter-argument that what the Renewal/Platinum booklet says about such things needs to be taken into account with what series evidence gives us (e.g: series canon overrides all other canon).
+
Also: mention somewhere in the opposite endings section as a counter-argument that what the Renewal/Platinum booklet says about such things needs to be taken into account with what series evidence gives us (e.g: series canon overrides all other canons).
  
 
Also mention somewhere the whole Instrumentality=more intimate than sex symbolism (EoE and internal mind trips "Do you want to become one with me?" lines, Asuka atop [[Shinji]] (scrapped sex pic though we still get <s>Royally pissed off</s> enraged [[Asuka]] and passive Shinji who actually stands up to her for the first time), [[Rei]] atop Shinji, etc...
 
Also mention somewhere the whole Instrumentality=more intimate than sex symbolism (EoE and internal mind trips "Do you want to become one with me?" lines, Asuka atop [[Shinji]] (scrapped sex pic though we still get <s>Royally pissed off</s> enraged [[Asuka]] and passive Shinji who actually stands up to her for the first time), [[Rei]] atop Shinji, etc...
  
 
==Complimentary Endings==
 
==Complimentary Endings==
−
===Pros===
+
===Argument===
−
===Cons===
+
 
  
 
==Concurrent Endings==
 
==Concurrent Endings==
−
===Pros===
+
===Argument===
−
Some people believe EoTV and EoE are the same event.  While EoTV takes place in the minds of the characters and Instrumentality, EoE is the actual events.  Based on the end of [[Episode 24]], [[Episode 25'|Air]] was supposed to be the original ending.  Because of this EoTV,which is what aired, and EoE, which is was completed later, were based off each other.  The main argument for concurrent endings are the reality scenes in EoTV, similar phrases and ideas in both versions, and the notion that [[Shinji]] rejected [[Instrumentality]] in both EoTV and EoE.  
+
Some people believe EoTV and EoE are the same events.  While EoTV takes place in the minds of the characters and Instrumentality, EoE are the actual events.  Based on the end of [[Episode 24]], [[Episode 25'|Air]] was supposed to be the original ending.  Because of this EoTV, which is what aired, and EoE, which was completed later, were based on each other.  The main argument for the concurrent endings is that the reality scenes in EoTV, similar phrases, and ideas in both versions, and the notion that [[Shinji]] rejected [[Instrumentality]] in both EoTV and EoE.  
 
====Reality Scenes====
 
====Reality Scenes====
−
In EoTV interspersed in the Instrumentality scenes are what are termed "reality scenes."  These scenes provide a glimpse into what is happening in the real world while the characters are having their internal dialogues.  In EoE the meaning of these scenes becomes clear since they are involved in the plot. Each picture shows the EoTV scene and its corresponding EoE scene.   
+
In EoTV, interspersed in the Instrumentality scenes are what is termed "reality scenes."  These scenes provide a glimpse into what is happening in the real world while the characters are having their internal dialogues.  In EoE the meaning of these scenes becomes clear since they are involved in the plot. Each picture shows the EoTV scene and its corresponding EoE scene.   
  
 
[[File:EoEconcurrency 1.png]]
 
[[File:EoEconcurrency 1.png]]
Line 51: Line 51:
  
 
====Similar Phrases and Ideas====
 
====Similar Phrases and Ideas====
 +
Both EoTV and EoE have similar phrases and ideas that relate to each other.  This is used as an argument to prove EoTV and EoE are concurrent portrayals of the same event.  EoTV jumps right into Instrumentality without any understanding that EoE provides. Still, in EoTV they mention ideas that the viewer knows are true based on EoE. 
 +
 +
EoTV Episode 26:
 +
 +
SHINJI: What the hell is this??
 +
 +
MISATO: <u>This is the Instrumentality which your father has initiated.</u>
 +
 +
SHINJI: This is it?
 +
 +
MISATO: This is part of it.
 +
 +
ASUKA: You can't tell what the truth is, Shinji.
 +
 +
RITSUKO: Truth is subjective. Therefore, you can barely tell that what you can feel is fact.
 +
 +
REI: The truth is within you.
 +
 +
FUYUTSUKI: And the facts that remain in your memory are what will become your truth.
 +
 +
RITSUKO: Truth can be changed from time to time, sometimes.
 +
 +
SHINJI: This is all fact! This is the result of... Everything?
 +
 +
ASUKA: This is real; but one of many realities.
 +
 +
MISATO: <u>This is the conclusion you wanted.</u>
 +
 +
SHINJI: Wanted...? Me?
 +
 +
REI: Yes; total destruction. You wished for a world in which nobody would be saved.
 +
 +
SHINJI: I didn't wish for this! The others didn't save me?!
 +
 +
RITSUKO: Nobody can save you from yourself.
 +
 +
KAJI: <u>This is what you wished for.</u>
 +
 +
ASUKA: Destruction. Death. And return to nothingness. You wished for these.
 +
 +
MISATO: This is the reality that is.
 +
 +
SHINJI: What is reality...?
 +
 +
REI: This is your world.
 +
 +
HYUGA: A world that exists solely for yourself; one without time, space, or anyone else.
 +
 +
AOBA: A world in which every facet is determined by you.
 +
 +
MAYA: This is the world where you just wait for others to give you something.
 +
That is reality.
 +
 +
MISATO: <u>This is your world unless you decide to change reality.</u>
 +
 +
SHINJI: <u>This is the world that is! Nothing can change that!</u>
 +
 +
RITSUKO: <u>No. You, yourself, make the decision.</u>
 +
 +
FUYUTSUKI: <u>This is the world where your mind decides what will be.</u>
 +
That is reality.
 +
 +
MISATO: Whether it is the will to survive...
 +
 +
ASUKA: Or a wish for death, it is all up to you.
 +
 +
SHINJI: Are you saying that this darkness -- this insane world -- are what I really wished to create?!
 +
 +
ASUKA: Yes.
 +
 +
KAJI: <u>You wished for a closed world, that was comfortable for you.</u>
 +
 +
HYUGA: You wished for it, in order to protect you from your weakness.
 +
 +
AOBA: To protect your few pleasures.
 +
 +
MAYA: <u>This is merely a result of your wish.</u>
 +
 +
MISATO: In your closed world, in a world where only you are allowed to be, others cannot live with you.
 +
 +
ASUKA: But still you wished to close off the world that surrounded you.
 +
 +
RITSUKO: Your wish ejected things you dislike, and created an isolated and lonely world filled with nothing.
 +
 +
REI: This is the world your wishes have created, a private haven in the recesses of the mind.
 +
 +
ASUKA: This is how it all ends; one of many possible endings.
 +
 +
MISATO: <u>This is an ending you brought upon yourself. You chose this fate.</u>
 +
 +
Shinji is given the choice, it is made extremely clear that the choice is his; this world is of his making. It is stated more than ten times in that passage that even though this is the "Instrumentality" that was Gendo's plan, it is still Shinji's wish, his choice, his decision, for it to be this way. This mirrors very much what happened in EoE, Though Gendo caused Instrumentality, it is Shinji's decision, and the fate of the world rests in his hands.  Here is the scene from episode 26' that occurs just after Komm Süsser Tod starts playing, This shows equivalent feelings on Shinji's part.
 +
 +
EoE:
 +
 +
Shinji: Nobody understands me.
 +
 +
Rei: You didn't understand anything.
 +
 +
Shinji: <u>I thought it was supposed to be a world without unpleasantness... without uncertainty.</u>
 +
 +
Rei: Because you thought that everyone else was like you.
 +
 +
Shinji: Betrayed! You've betrayed my feelings!!
 +
 +
Rei: You've misunderstood from the start. You simply assumed without asking.
 +
 +
Shinji: <u>Nobody wants me. So, everybody just die.</u>
 +
 +
Rei: Then, what are those hands for?
 +
 +
Shinji: <u>Nobody cares whether I exist or not... Nothing will change. So, everybody just die.</u>
 +
 +
Rei: Then, what is that heart for?
 +
 +
Shinji: <u>It'd be better if I wasn't here either. So I should just die, too.</u>
 +
 +
Rei: Then, why are you here?
 +
 +
Note that this scene occurs just before Lilith expands her Anti-AT Field and everyone loses physical form. The "wish" of Shinji is clear to see here. EoTV: KAJI: ''You wished for a closed world, that was comfortable for you.'', EoE: Shinji: ''I thought it was supposed to be a world without unpleasantness... without uncertainty. .''
 +
 +
The first scene from episode 25 actually takes place after the second. In the second scene, the viewer is shown that Shinji wishes for death, that he wishes everyone would just die, and immediately after that we see his wish effectively granted, that everyone loses physical form, they all revert to LCL. However he then gets the chance to ponder that decision, ''"Whether it is the will to survive... Or a wish for death, it is all up to you.".'' It is Shinji's choice, he is given it in the series ending and he is given it in the movie ending as well. And so it goes... everyone has "died"...
 +
 
====Rejection of Instrumentality====
 
====Rejection of Instrumentality====
  
 
    
 
    
−
===Cons===
+
 
  
 
==Different Endings==
 
==Different Endings==
−
===Pros===
+
===Argument===
−
One argument that the two endings are different is EoTV ends with Shinji making a positive psychological breakthrough while EoE ends with trauma and desolation for Shinji after he returns from Instrumentality. In EoTV Shinji obtains some form of inner peace and reconciliation.  In EoE Shinji is left for a unknown period of time alone on a barren and ravaged earth.  There is no sense if he learned any lessons like he did in EoTV. Symbolism also plays a role in this theory.  In EoTV, individuals are alone in their own room going through their own physiological monologue.  On the other hand, EoE represents Instrumentality as the union of all souls.  At the end of EoTV Shinji's room shattered. This conveys the exact opposite of the Instrumentality in EoE where individual's A.T. Fields return. At the beginning of EoTV it says  
+
====Positive vs. Negative Ending====
−
''The year is 2016 A.D. The thing that people had lost In other words, the instrumentality of souls was still ongoing However, there is far too little time left to make mention of it all Therefore, now, we will take the boy named Shinji Ikari and tell the story of the instrumentality of his soul''  This would make it seem Shinji is just one of the multitude.  The presentation of events in EoTV does not suggest that Shinji occupies any privileged position other than being the main viewpoint character. When Misato washes her dirty linen in the shared mental space, everyone comments on her, without any sense on Shinji being a connecting hub, or in any other sense distinguished from any other of the participants. On the other hand EoE definitely portrays Shinji as the main driving force and focus of Instrumentality. Another theory is in EoTV Shinji accepts Instrumentality while in EoE Shinji rejects it.  In EoTV it does not make it clear that Shinji has a choice in the matter; he just needs to accept it after he realizes to love himself.  The quote ''I understand! I can exist here!'' is used by proponents to say Shinji realized he can live in this new Instrumentality world.
+
One argument that the two endings are different is EoTV ends with Shinji making a positive psychological breakthrough while EoE ends with trauma and desolation for Shinji after he returns from Instrumentality. In EoTV, Shinji obtains some form of inner peace and reconciliation.  In EoE Shinji is left for an unknown period of time alone on a barren and ravaged earth.  There is no sense if he learned any lessons as he did in EoTV.  
−
 
+
====A.T. Field Symbolism====
−
===Cons===
+
Symbolism also plays a role in supporting divergent endings.  In EoTV, individuals are alone in their own room going through their own physiological monologue.  On the other hand, EoE represents Instrumentality as the union of all souls.  At the end of EoTV Shinji's room shattered. This conveys the exact opposite of the Instrumentality in EoE where an individual's A.T. Fields return.  
−
Though this theory has some following, allusions to real life in EoTV and parallels to EoE cannot be ignored.  The two ends cannot fully be divergent because they relate to each other.  Each adds to the overall picture.  EoTV deals with coping with the real world and the pain of living while EoE is about the events of Instrumentality. Each fills the gaps of the other.  
+
====Focus on Shinji====
 +
At the beginning of EoTV it says ''The year is 2016 A.D. The thing that people had lost In other words, the instrumentality of souls was still ongoing However, there is far too little time left to make mention of it all, therefore, now, we will take the boy named Shinji Ikari and tell the story of the instrumentality of his soul''  This would make it seem Shinji is just one of the multitude.  The presentation of events in EoTV does not suggest that Shinji occupies any privileged position other than being the main viewpoint character. When Misato washes her dirty linen in the shared mental space, everyone comments on her, without any sense on Shinji being a connecting hub, or in any other sense distinguished from any other of the participants. On the other hand, EoE definitely portrays Shinji as the main driving force and focus of Instrumentality.  
 +
====Acceptance of Instrumentality====
 +
Another theory is in EoTV Shinji accepts Instrumentality while in EoE Shinji rejects it.  In EoTV it does not make it clear that Shinji has a choice in the matter; he just needs to accept it after he realizes to love himself.  The quote ''I understand! I can exist here!'' is used by proponents to say Shinji realized he can live in this new Instrumentality world.  In the Newtype Filmbook description of the last scene of EoTV is ''"Amidst the many words of congratulations, a faint smile starts at the corners of Shinji's mouth (and spreads across his face). A happy face -- that is the figure of the Complemented Shinji. This conclusion is also one form, one possibility among many."'' This has been interpreted by some fans as referring to an acceptance of permanent Instrumentalization and merging with the rest of humanity.
  
 
[[Category:Theory and Analysis]]
 
[[Category:Theory and Analysis]]
  
 
{{stub}}
 
{{stub}}

Revision as of 13:45, 12 November 2019

07 C032.jpg

"Miss Misato, please don't go out like that. It's embarrassing."
 The tone and/or writing style of this article/section is inappropriate. It should be rewritten to conform to guidelines.
Please discuss this issue on the talk page and/or begin editing the page.

T&A page about EoTV vs EoE, analyzing whether they can be seen as complementary, literally concurrent, and/or opposite endings.

Breaking it down into sections about the pros and cons of the three ideas as well as the final verdict based on the evidence the series gives to the audience (Not just stuff from EoTV or EoE, but from the rest of the series as well. For instance, Shinji's various citations of the word "here" (koko) during his internal mind trips (Personal Hell train); "Do you want to become one with me?"; etc; etc)

Also: mention somewhere in the opposite endings section as a counter-argument that what the Renewal/Platinum booklet says about such things needs to be taken into account with what series evidence gives us (e.g: series canon overrides all other canons).

Also mention somewhere the whole Instrumentality=more intimate than sex symbolism (EoE and internal mind trips "Do you want to become one with me?" lines, Asuka atop Shinji (scrapped sex pic though we still get Royally pissed off enraged Asuka and passive Shinji who actually stands up to her for the first time), Rei atop Shinji, etc...

Complimentary Endings

Argument

Concurrent Endings

Argument

Some people believe EoTV and EoE are the same events. While EoTV takes place in the minds of the characters and Instrumentality, EoE are the actual events. Based on the end of Episode 24, Air was supposed to be the original ending. Because of this EoTV, which is what aired, and EoE, which was completed later, were based on each other. The main argument for the concurrent endings is that the reality scenes in EoTV, similar phrases, and ideas in both versions, and the notion that Shinji rejected Instrumentality in both EoTV and EoE.

Reality Scenes

In EoTV, interspersed in the Instrumentality scenes are what is termed "reality scenes." These scenes provide a glimpse into what is happening in the real world while the characters are having their internal dialogues. In EoE the meaning of these scenes becomes clear since they are involved in the plot. Each picture shows the EoTV scene and its corresponding EoE scene.

EoEconcurrency 1.png

Eva 02 at the bottom of the lake

EoEconcurrency 2.png

Misato wounded

EoEconcurrency 3.png

Ritsuko's body floating

EoEconcurrency 4.png

EoEconcurrency 5.png

Gendo & Rei

EoEconcurrency 6.png

The sandbox

EoEconcurrency 7.png

EoEconcurrency8.png

Shinji watching Misato and Kaji

EoEconcurrency 9.png

Shinji floating "nowhere"

Similar Phrases and Ideas

Both EoTV and EoE have similar phrases and ideas that relate to each other. This is used as an argument to prove EoTV and EoE are concurrent portrayals of the same event. EoTV jumps right into Instrumentality without any understanding that EoE provides. Still, in EoTV they mention ideas that the viewer knows are true based on EoE.

EoTV Episode 26:

SHINJI: What the hell is this??

MISATO: This is the Instrumentality which your father has initiated.

SHINJI: This is it?

MISATO: This is part of it.

ASUKA: You can't tell what the truth is, Shinji.

RITSUKO: Truth is subjective. Therefore, you can barely tell that what you can feel is fact.

REI: The truth is within you.

FUYUTSUKI: And the facts that remain in your memory are what will become your truth.

RITSUKO: Truth can be changed from time to time, sometimes.

SHINJI: This is all fact! This is the result of... Everything?

ASUKA: This is real; but one of many realities.

MISATO: This is the conclusion you wanted.

SHINJI: Wanted...? Me?

REI: Yes; total destruction. You wished for a world in which nobody would be saved.

SHINJI: I didn't wish for this! The others didn't save me?!

RITSUKO: Nobody can save you from yourself.

KAJI: This is what you wished for.

ASUKA: Destruction. Death. And return to nothingness. You wished for these.

MISATO: This is the reality that is.

SHINJI: What is reality...?

REI: This is your world.

HYUGA: A world that exists solely for yourself; one without time, space, or anyone else.

AOBA: A world in which every facet is determined by you.

MAYA: This is the world where you just wait for others to give you something. That is reality.

MISATO: This is your world unless you decide to change reality.

SHINJI: This is the world that is! Nothing can change that!

RITSUKO: No. You, yourself, make the decision.

FUYUTSUKI: This is the world where your mind decides what will be. That is reality.

MISATO: Whether it is the will to survive...

ASUKA: Or a wish for death, it is all up to you.

SHINJI: Are you saying that this darkness -- this insane world -- are what I really wished to create?!

ASUKA: Yes.

KAJI: You wished for a closed world, that was comfortable for you.

HYUGA: You wished for it, in order to protect you from your weakness.

AOBA: To protect your few pleasures.

MAYA: This is merely a result of your wish.

MISATO: In your closed world, in a world where only you are allowed to be, others cannot live with you.

ASUKA: But still you wished to close off the world that surrounded you.

RITSUKO: Your wish ejected things you dislike, and created an isolated and lonely world filled with nothing.

REI: This is the world your wishes have created, a private haven in the recesses of the mind.

ASUKA: This is how it all ends; one of many possible endings.

MISATO: This is an ending you brought upon yourself. You chose this fate.

Shinji is given the choice, it is made extremely clear that the choice is his; this world is of his making. It is stated more than ten times in that passage that even though this is the "Instrumentality" that was Gendo's plan, it is still Shinji's wish, his choice, his decision, for it to be this way. This mirrors very much what happened in EoE, Though Gendo caused Instrumentality, it is Shinji's decision, and the fate of the world rests in his hands. Here is the scene from episode 26' that occurs just after Komm Süsser Tod starts playing, This shows equivalent feelings on Shinji's part.

EoE:

Shinji: Nobody understands me.

Rei: You didn't understand anything.

Shinji: I thought it was supposed to be a world without unpleasantness... without uncertainty.

Rei: Because you thought that everyone else was like you.

Shinji: Betrayed! You've betrayed my feelings!!

Rei: You've misunderstood from the start. You simply assumed without asking.

Shinji: Nobody wants me. So, everybody just die.

Rei: Then, what are those hands for?

Shinji: Nobody cares whether I exist or not... Nothing will change. So, everybody just die.

Rei: Then, what is that heart for?

Shinji: It'd be better if I wasn't here either. So I should just die, too.

Rei: Then, why are you here?

Note that this scene occurs just before Lilith expands her Anti-AT Field and everyone loses physical form. The "wish" of Shinji is clear to see here. EoTV: KAJI: You wished for a closed world, that was comfortable for you., EoE: Shinji: I thought it was supposed to be a world without unpleasantness... without uncertainty. .

The first scene from episode 25 actually takes place after the second. In the second scene, the viewer is shown that Shinji wishes for death, that he wishes everyone would just die, and immediately after that we see his wish effectively granted, that everyone loses physical form, they all revert to LCL. However he then gets the chance to ponder that decision, "Whether it is the will to survive... Or a wish for death, it is all up to you.". It is Shinji's choice, he is given it in the series ending and he is given it in the movie ending as well. And so it goes... everyone has "died"...

Rejection of Instrumentality

Different Endings

Argument

Positive vs. Negative Ending

One argument that the two endings are different is EoTV ends with Shinji making a positive psychological breakthrough while EoE ends with trauma and desolation for Shinji after he returns from Instrumentality. In EoTV, Shinji obtains some form of inner peace and reconciliation. In EoE Shinji is left for an unknown period of time alone on a barren and ravaged earth. There is no sense if he learned any lessons as he did in EoTV.

A.T. Field Symbolism

Symbolism also plays a role in supporting divergent endings. In EoTV, individuals are alone in their own room going through their own physiological monologue. On the other hand, EoE represents Instrumentality as the union of all souls. At the end of EoTV Shinji's room shattered. This conveys the exact opposite of the Instrumentality in EoE where an individual's A.T. Fields return.

Focus on Shinji

At the beginning of EoTV it says The year is 2016 A.D. The thing that people had lost In other words, the instrumentality of souls was still ongoing However, there is far too little time left to make mention of it all, therefore, now, we will take the boy named Shinji Ikari and tell the story of the instrumentality of his soul This would make it seem Shinji is just one of the multitude. The presentation of events in EoTV does not suggest that Shinji occupies any privileged position other than being the main viewpoint character. When Misato washes her dirty linen in the shared mental space, everyone comments on her, without any sense on Shinji being a connecting hub, or in any other sense distinguished from any other of the participants. On the other hand, EoE definitely portrays Shinji as the main driving force and focus of Instrumentality.

Acceptance of Instrumentality

Another theory is in EoTV Shinji accepts Instrumentality while in EoE Shinji rejects it. In EoTV it does not make it clear that Shinji has a choice in the matter; he just needs to accept it after he realizes to love himself. The quote I understand! I can exist here! is used by proponents to say Shinji realized he can live in this new Instrumentality world. In the Newtype Filmbook description of the last scene of EoTV is "Amidst the many words of congratulations, a faint smile starts at the corners of Shinji's mouth (and spreads across his face). A happy face -- that is the figure of the Complemented Shinji. This conclusion is also one form, one possibility among many." This has been interpreted by some fans as referring to an acceptance of permanent Instrumentalization and merging with the rest of humanity.


This article bears the unpleasant designation of "Stub." This is a Bad Thing. Provide a great service to NGE fan-geeks everywhere by making it awesomer!

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